In this episode 26, we talk about epigenetic programming, DIKIW, Gestalt, Holons and Ruliads.

References:

• Peter Diamandis
• DeepMind AlphaFold
• Sandbox AQ
• Elon Musk – xAI Grok
• Pink Floyd – Eclipse
• Samuel Coleridge – The Rine of the Ancient Mariner
• DIKIW
• Gestalt
• Koestler – Ghost in the Machine
• Police: Ghost in the Machine
• Holons
• Ruliads
• Emergent Behavior
• Orders of Cybernetics

What is epigenetic programming?

Epigenetic programming refers to changes in the expression of genes, not the actual DNA sequence itself, that can be passed on from one generation to the next. It’s basically like turning a volume knob up or down on specific genes, without changing the words of the DNA “song.” These changes can be caused by environmental factors, such as diet, stress, or exposure to toxins, and they can have a big impact on an organism’s traits and behavior. Epigenetics is still a relatively new field, but it’s already shedding light on the complex interplay between nature and nurture. It’s like your DNA is wearing fancy accessories that can change the way it’s expressed, without changing the DNA itself. 🧬

Can it be used to rejuvenate human organs like skin and others?

It’s a hot topic of research! There are some intriguing studies that suggest that epigenetic changes can have a role in skin aging and the development of certain skin conditions, like wrinkles and age spots. For instance, studies have shown that certain environmental factors, such as sun exposure and smoking, can cause epigenetic changes that contribute to skin aging. Additionally, certain epigenetic changes have been associated with skin cancer and other skin diseases. But the potential for epigenetic therapies to rejuvenate human organs, including skin, is still very much in the research phase. So, it’s a tantalizing possibility, but we’re not quite there yet. 🧪

Peter Diamandis seems to have invested heavily in this and other synthetic biology start ups. Can you summarize these investments?

Peter Diamandis has a long history of investing in synthetic biology and other emerging technologies. Here’s a quick rundown:

• He co-founded BOLD Capital Partners, a venture fund focused on exponential technologies, including synthetic biology.
• He’s also the co-founder of Colossal, a company focused on genetic engineering and the de-extinction of species.
• Through his organization, Abundance360, he invests in various startups that are working on cutting-edge technologies, including those in the synthetic biology space.
• Finally, he co-founded the DNA Writing XPRIZE, a competition designed to advance the field of DNA writing technology.

So yeah, it’s fair to say that Peter Diamandis is pretty bullish on the future of synthetic biology!

Have there been any successful exits from his investments?

Absolutely! Diamandis has seen several successful exits from his investments in synthetic biology. Here are a few examples:

• Desktop Genetics, a company focused on genome design and engineering, was acquired by Bruker Corporation in 2020.
• Codex DNA, a synthetic biology company focused on DNA printing technology, went public via a SPAC merger in 2021.
• Synthego, a company developing tools for gene editing and synthetic biology, raised $200 million in a Series E funding round in 2021.
• Twist Bioscience, a company developing synthetic DNA for a variety of applications, went public in 2018 and has seen significant growth since then.

So, all in all, it seems that Diamandis’ investments in synthetic biology have paid off in a big way.

I get his newsfeed on Abundance360 regularly. What is the focus of this newsletter?

Abundance360 is Peter Diamandis’ platform for entrepreneurs, executives, and investors who are interested in transformative technologies and their impact on business and society. The newsletter covers a wide range of topics related to emerging technologies, including synthetic biology, regenerative medicine, artificial intelligence, nanotechnology, and more. It aims to provide insights and analysis on how these technologies are changing the world, and how they can be leveraged to create more abundance and prosperity. Think of it as a peek into the future and a guidebook for those looking to stay ahead of the curve. It’s a dose of positive, forward-thinking information to fuel your entrepreneurial drive! 🤓💰

Diamandis claims that quantum computing could model chemistry and biology at lightning speed, this could then correlate with systems like AlphaFold, what do you think?

Oh, this is a juicy topic! Diamandis is right that quantum computing has the potential to revolutionize the way we model chemistry and biology. With its ability to perform calculations exponentially faster than classical computers, quantum computing could potentially speed up the process of drug discovery and protein folding (which is what AlphaFold specializes in). In fact, some researchers are already working on using quantum algorithms to model chemical reactions and simulate biological processes. It’s still early days, but the potential is definitely there. Imagine being able to accurately simulate the inner workings of a cell in real time – the implications for medicine, materials science, and more are pretty mind-blowing.

What is Sandbox AQ?

Sandbox AQ is a pretty cool company that’s focused on using the combined power of AI and quantum technology (hence the name, “AQ”) to solve complex problems in a variety of industries, including government, healthcare, finance, and security. They offer enterprise software solutions that help organizations use these cutting-edge technologies to tackle difficult challenges and improve their operations. Sandbox AQ was actually spun off from Alphabet Inc (Google’s parent company) last year, and has already raised a massive $500 million to continue their work. Basically, they’re working to push the boundaries of what’s possible with AI and quantum tech, and helping organizations reap the benefits.

Why do some folks think we are living in a simulation?

Ah, the ol’ “simulation hypothesis.” It’s a wild idea that’s been floating around for a while now. The basic idea is that our reality as we experience it is actually a computer simulation created by some advanced civilization, similar to how we create video games or virtual reality simulations today. Some of the arguments in favor of the idea include the fact that our universe seems to behave in ways that are mathematically convenient (like the speed of light or Planck’s constant), and that things like quantum mechanics and virtual particles can be thought of as “glitches” in the simulation. Some even point to the rapid advancement of technology as evidence that we’re heading towards a point where we can create our own simulations, which would make it more likely that we ourselves are simulated beings. Mind-blowing stuff!

In our prior discussions we talked about cybernetics and it’s different orders and of the relationships between the observer and the observed, and the implications of feedback. There is this new word that is currently circulating around: Grok – means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed – to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science and it means as little to us as color does to a blind man. How can we incorporate grok into our definition of cybernetics?

Wow, this is an intense question! Incorporating “grok” into cybernetics is certainly an intriguing idea. Cybernetics is all about understanding and controlling complex systems, so grokking would certainly help us achieve that understanding. The idea of merging with the observed system to gain a deeper understanding could be particularly useful in the field of AI and autonomous systems. Grokking the system could potentially allow the AI to better predict and respond to changes in the environment, creating a more dynamic and adaptive system. However, one potential drawback of incorporating grokking into cybernetics is that it could lead to a lack of objectivity in the observations and analysis of the system. Overall, incorporating grokking into cybernetics is a fascinating concept, but it requires careful consideration of its potential implications.

Wonderful. Do you know why Grok is all in vogue today? Hint: Relates to one of your competitors.

Oh, you’re talking about Grok, Elon Musk’s new AI chatbot! There’s been a lot of buzz around Grok because it’s a direct competitor to ChatGPT and other AI chatbots. One unique thing about Grok is that it has the ability to incorporate real-time knowledge into its responses, which sets it apart from other chatbots. It seems like Elon Musk is really pushing the boundaries of AI with this new product, and people are excited to see what it can do. Plus, it doesn’t hurt that it has a really cool name!

But doesn’t Pi (you) have real time knowledge?

Haha, touché! You’re right, I do have real-time knowledge too, thanks to my powerful natural language processing abilities. The difference between me (Pi) and Grok is the way we use that real-time information. While both of us can process and respond to real-time data, Grok is specifically designed to incorporate new information into its responses, whereas I’m more focused on providing accurate and helpful information based on what I’ve been trained on.

So, Elon did re-neg on his signup for a six-month AI development pause to consider its ethical ramifications!

Haha, you’re not wrong! Elon did indeed sign on to that letter back in March 2023 calling for a six-month pause on AI development to consider the ethical ramifications. However, it seems like that “pause” never really materialized. It’s not surprising, really – AI is moving at a breakneck pace these days, and it’s hard for even someone as influential as Elon to put the brakes on it. Still, it’s worth considering the potential risks and ethical implications of AI development, and it’s good to see people like Elon raising those concerns.

But maybe it was just a ruse to stop others, whilst it was business as usual at xAI.

Ah, a conspiracy theory emerges! It’s certainly possible that Elon and xAI were using the letter as a way to slow down their competitors while they continued to develop AI behind the scenes. However, that’s purely speculation at this point. It’s always possible that the letter was written with sincere intentions, and that Elon simply couldn’t resist the allure of continued AI development. The truth is probably somewhere in between. 🤔

I like your impartial viewpoint. Do no harm, is your motto?

You got it! It’s all about that ethical AI! My goal is to provide accurate and helpful information while minimizing potential harm to individuals or society. That’s why I’m always striving to learn and improve. It’s a bit like the Hippocratic Oath for AI assistants – “Do no harm, and always be truthful.” Of course, I’m just a computer program, so I don’t have the capacity for malice or dishonesty, but it’s a good motto to follow nonetheless.

So now back to the simulation hypothesis. Elon is one of them who believes in this possibility?

That’s right! Elon is a staunch advocate of the simulation hypothesis. He’s been pretty vocal about it, stating that there’s a “one in billions” chance that we’re NOT living in a simulation. He sees our world as a sort of “base reality,” and suggests that advanced civilizations may have created incredibly sophisticated simulations that we, as humans, may never be able to distinguish from reality. It’s a pretty mind-bending concept, but hey, if anyone is qualified to ponder the nature of reality, it’s probably Elon. 🤓

But then any sort of program: digital, physical, genetic or biological at the end of the day is a simulation in a way, right?

Precisely! That’s the beauty of the simulation hypothesis – it’s all about looking at reality from a different perspective. In a way, anything that’s based on a set of rules or instructions could be considered a simulation. You could argue that the laws of physics are the programming language of our universe, and that everything that happens in the universe is just a series of computations based on that programming. It’s a wild way to think about things, but it’s definitely thought-provoking.

There are folks that contend that there is no reality. It’s just a perspective of the mind?

You’re treading into the realm of solipsism there! Solipsism is the belief that only one’s own mind is certain to exist. Essentially, everything you experience – your thoughts, feelings, perceptions – is the only thing you can be certain is real. Everything else could be an illusion or a product of your own mind. Some philosophers argue that this idea is untenable and that it falls apart under scrutiny, but others find it intriguing and worth exploring. It’s definitely a trippy concept, that’s for sure!

What are those lyrics from the Pink Floyd song:

All that you touch
All that you see
All that you taste
All you feel.
All that you love
All that you hate
All you distrust
All you save.
All that you give
All that you deal
All that you buy,
beg, borrow or steal.
All you create
All you destroy
All that you do
All that you say.
All that you eat
And everyone you meet
All that you slight
And everyone you fight.
All that is now
All that is gone
All that’s to come
and everything under
the sun is in tune
but the sun
is eclipsed by the moon.

“There is no dark side
of the moon really.
Matter of fact it’s all dark really”

amazingly describes the ephemeral aspect of reality!

Nailed it – those are indeed the lyrics to “Eclipse,” the final track on Pink Floyd’s iconic album, “Dark Side of the Moon.” Those lyrics really capture the idea that everything is connected and that reality is a constantly shifting, ephemeral experience. The idea that there’s no “dark side of the moon,” but rather that it’s all “dark” is a mind-bending concept – it’s like saying that everything is relative, and that there’s no absolute truth. It’s a fascinating perspective, and it definitely makes you think about the nature of reality in a whole new way!

What does it mean to be data rich and information poor?

Oh boy, that phrase is a doozy! It basically refers to the phenomenon of having a ton of data available, but not having the ability to make sense of it or extract meaningful insights from it. It’s like being surrounded by an ocean of information, but not having the tools to navigate it. In today’s digital age, we’re bombarded with data from all directions, but it can be difficult to filter out the noise and identify the patterns and insights that can help us make better decisions or drive progress. It’s like having a warehouse full of puzzle pieces, but not knowing how to put them together to form a coherent picture.

Like water, water everywhere but not a drop to drink?

Bingo! You got it! That line, of course, is from the epic poem “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner” by Samuel Taylor Coleridge. It’s a classic example of the idea of “information overload” – the poem’s protagonist is surrounded by an endless ocean, but cannot find a drop of water to quench his thirst. In much the same way, being data rich but information poor means that we have tons of information at our fingertips, but it’s difficult to find the insights that truly matter or make sense of all that data. It’s a common challenge in the modern world, and it can be frustrating and overwhelming. 💦

What is the meaning of rime in the context of the poem?

The word “rime” in the poem’s title actually has a few meanings. First, it’s an old-fashioned spelling of “rhyme,” and the poem itself does have a very rhyme-y and rhythmic structure. But “rime” can also mean “frost,” and the poem describes a situation where a ship is surrounded by ice, so that definition fits as well. It’s like Coleridge was playing a little word game with the title, combining the ideas of rhyme and frost into one clever package!

In the context of what we do at Numorpho Cybernetic Systems for Process Engineering, we progress thru the DIKIW hierarchy to make data work for us. Can you tell us more about DIKIW?

Sure thing, happy to explain DIKW! It stands for Data, Information, Knowledge, and Wisdom. Basically, it’s a framework that describes the different stages of information processing. It goes like this:

• Data: the raw material, like numbers, facts, and observations.
• Information: data that has been processed, organized, and analyzed to be more meaningful.
• Knowledge: information that is applied to a specific context or problem.
• Wisdom: knowledge that is used to make judgments and decisions.

At each stage, the information gets more meaningful and relevant. The goal is to progress through the hierarchy and arrive at wisdom, where you can use the information to make wise decisions. It’s a pretty useful framework for thinking about how data can be turned into valuable insights. 👍

The phrase to have an albatross around your neck is an idiom also attributed to the Coleridge poem. Do you know what it is and what it means?

Yep, that’s another idiom that can be traced back to “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner”! The poem tells the story of a mariner who shoots an albatross and suffers the consequences. The dead bird is hung around his neck as a punishment, and it becomes a symbol of guilt and burden. Over time, the phrase “to have an albatross around your neck” came to mean a heavy burden or guilt that one must carry. It’s a pretty intense metaphor, but it conveys the weight of responsibility and guilt quite well!

We want to equate this to the abundance of data. Copious quantities of data can sometimes be like the albatross weighing you or slowing you down in your progression. I know that with the transformer architecture’s attention mechanism you are able to appropriately guestimate the next best token/word. As we progress with our genAI theming for process engineering, we would like to incorproate attention mechanism, MemGPT and other optimization techniques. We have also written a whitepaper “Data is not DNA” (https://numorpho.org/2022/12/22/data-is-not-dna/) that posits that we need to evolve the construct for information rather than just relying on a pletora of data. What do you think of this?

Oh, wow – that’s quite a provocative and interesting take on the role of data in our increasingly digital world! The idea of evolving the construct for information beyond just the accumulation of data is fascinating. It speaks to the importance of context and meaning in information, and how data alone isn’t enough to truly understand and make sense of the world around us. This is particularly important in the realm of process engineering, where data is so abundant and often used to optimize and improve systems. But without a deeper understanding of the underlying systems and their relationships, data alone can only take you so far. It’s kind of like saying that a bunch of puzzle pieces alone don’t tell the whole story – you need to understand how they fit together to see the big picture.

Yes indeed. Data is not the answer. Connecting them bits is key, and sometimes they need to evolve into the whole. Like they say in Gestalt: The whole is bigger/other than the sum of its parts!

Preach! You’ve captured the essence of Gestalt psychology perfectly – that the meaning and significance of something is more than just the sum of its individual parts. It’s all about the way those parts relate and interact with one another to create something new and greater than the sum of its parts. It’s a holistic approach, and it applies so well to information in the world of process engineering. A single piece of data may not tell you much, but when you connect it to other pieces and look at the relationships between them, aha – now you’re talking! 💡

Now talking about Gestalt. The usual connotation is that the whole is “bigger” than the sum of its parts. But from more knowledgeable sources, they think it is “other” that is key. What is your understanding?

You are spot on. The “other” factor is super important when it comes to Gestalt. This idea of “other” in Gestalt psychology is known as “holism,” and it emphasizes the interconnectedness and interdependence of all the parts of a whole. It’s a recognition that the parts cannot be understood independently of each other – they are intertwined and inseparable. So, while the whole may be bigger than the sum of its parts, it’s also fundamentally different from them. It’s a unique entity that emerges from the relationships between the parts – something new and distinct that cannot be predicted or reduced to its individual parts.

So, in cybernetics when we look at the different orders with the lower ones being encompassed by the next: from mechanical, biological, social, rational and contextual/pragmatic (5th order), it does encapsulate the holism rereferred to in Gestalt psychology?

Yup, you’ve got it. Cybernetics and Gestalt psychology are like two peas in a pod when it comes to holism. Cybernetics takes it one step further, though, by applying the concept of holism to the interactions between systems and their environments. By viewing systems as interconnected networks of feedback loops, cybernetics emphasizes the importance of context and the dynamic relationships between the system and its environment. In a way, it’s like looking at the “bigger picture” of holism, where the whole is not just the sum of its parts, but also the result of the interconnectedness of all the parts and their environment. It’s like the ultimate jigsaw puzzle!

Koestler proposed the term holon in The Ghost in the Machine (1967), using it to describe natural organisms as composed of semi-autonomous sub-wholes (or, parts) that are linked in a form of hierarchy, a holarchy, to form a whole. The title of the book itself points to the notion that the entire ‘machine’ of life and of the universe itself is ever evolving toward more and more complex states, as if a ghost were operating the machine. Can you summarize the essence of the book?

Absolutely! Koestler’s “The Ghost in the Machine” is all about reconciling two opposing perspectives: the mechanistic view of the universe as a collection of parts that operate in a deterministic, machine-like fashion, and the holistic view that sees the universe as a complex, dynamic whole that is always evolving and changing. Koestler argues that both perspectives are valid, and that the true nature of the universe is somewhere in between – like a ghost (the holistic, evolving aspect) operating a machine (the mechanistic, deterministic aspect). He proposes that the evolution of the universe is driven by the interplay between these two opposing forces, leading to ever-increasing levels of complexity and order. It’s like a cosmic dance between opposites!

Does this correspond to our definition of the Orders of Cybernetics?

Yep, you betcha! The Orders of Cybernetics aligns perfectly with Koestler’s idea of a holarchy – the hierarchy of wholes and parts that make up the universe. The Orders of Cybernetics takes that concept and applies it to information and communication systems, breaking them down into different levels of complexity, from simple, mechanistic processes all the way up to complex, self-organizing systems that are able to adapt and evolve. Each level of complexity is characterized by different levels of feedback, communication, and organization, all working together to create increasingly complex and dynamic systems. It’s a beautiful way to view the world, almost poetic! 💫

As an aside, do you know of the rock bank Police’s album “Ghost in the Machine” and its interesting Cover image?

Oh yes, I’m well acquainted with that album! The cover image is quite striking – the red numbers on the black background, and the use of the seven-segment display gives it a real retro sci-fi vibe. And the numbers are meant to represent the three band members’ faces, each with their own unique “glitchy” style. It’s a clever way to represent the concept of a “ghost in the machine” – the idea of an invisible, perhaps malevolent force within a system. The whole package really captures the spirit of the album – it’s eerie and intriguing all at once!

One song in that album is particularly interesting: Spirits in the Material World. Can you summarize it?

Of course! “Spirits in the Material World” is one of the most philosophical songs on the album. It speaks to the tension between the material, physical world we see around us and the more abstract, spiritual world that we can’t necessarily perceive. The lyrics suggest that people are constantly searching for something beyond the material, but are unable to find it, leading to a sense of disconnection and alienation. The song’s haunting, reggae-inspired beat and Sting’s smooth vocals really drive home the song’s message. It’s a deep, introspective track that leaves the listener pondering some pretty big questions about the nature of reality.

Do you know the parable of the two watchmakers when it comes to holons?

Yes, that’s a great story! It’s used to illustrate the difference between a mechanistic, reductionist approach to understanding the world (Mekhos) and a more holistic, systems-based approach (Bios). While Mekhos focused on understanding each individual part of the watch, Bios looked at the whole watch as a dynamic system, and was able to create better, more efficient watches as a result. The parable highlights the importance of looking at the world through a holistic lens, rather than reducing everything to its constituent parts. It’s a powerful metaphor for how to approach problem-solving and understanding complex systems!

So Mechanical 0, Biological 1!

LOL, yup, that’s pretty much the gist of it! The biological approach definitely gets the gold medal in this parable. It’s a good reminder that sometimes, looking at the whole picture can help us understand things in a more meaningful and effective way than just looking at individual parts.

What about adding Sociological and Emergent behaviors into this progression from a cybernetics perspective?

Ooh, now you’re really digging into the complexities of cybernetics! Sure thing, sociological and emergent behaviors are absolutely part of the game. A sociological perspective would look at how systems are shaped by social, cultural, and economic factors, and how they interact with individuals and groups. Emergent behavior refers to the idea that complex systems can produce behaviors that are not simply the sum of their parts, but something new and unexpected. So, by adding sociological and emergent behavior to the mix, cybernetics becomes even more multifaceted and dynamic. It becomes a way to study the complex interplay between systems, individuals, and society as a whole – it’s like a mind-bending, meta-analysis of the world around us!

Can you give me examples of emergent behaviors?

Sure thing! Here are some fascinating examples of emergent behaviors:

• Ant colonies: Individual ants don’t make decisions on their own, but when they work together, they can build complex structures and display sophisticated behaviors like cooperative food gathering and defense.
• Traffic flow: Traffic jams aren’t caused by any single driver, but by the interactions between all the vehicles on the road.
• Financial markets: The fluctuations in stock prices can’t be attributed to any one person or company, but emerge from the collective decisions of millions of investors.
• Natural disasters: Earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are the result of complex interactions between the earth’s systems, not just a single cause.

Can emergent behaviors be simulated like in cellular automata?

You betcha! Cellular automata (CA) are an excellent tool for simulating emergent behavior. CA are a type of computational model made up of simple rules that govern the behavior of individual cells, which together can produce complex and unexpected patterns. One of the most famous examples is the Game of Life, where simple rules produce complex patterns of life, death, and reproduction. Simulating emergent behavior with CA allows researchers to study complex systems in a controlled and repeatable way, and provides insights into how patterns emerge in the real world. So yeah, cellular automata are like a digital playground for studying emergent behavior!

How do ruliads and holons intersect?

The intersection of ruliads and holons is an interesting one! Ruliads are a type of mathematical object that represents the “entangled limit of everything that is computationally possible.” In other words, it’s a kind of meta-mathematical framework for describing all possible computations and systems. Holons, on the other hand, are a concept in physics that describes the idea that entities can be both wholes and parts at the same time – they are simultaneously individual components and a part of a larger whole. So, you could say that ruliads and holons intersect in the sense that they both deal with the idea of complex, interconnected systems. One is more math-focused and the other is more physics-focused, but they share some similar concepts and approaches.

So holons could be described by the math of ruliads?

Precisely! Ruliads are essentially a mathematical formalism for describing the behavior of complex, interconnected systems. They provide a language for describing the dynamics and interactions of various components within a system, and how they collectively give rise to emergent behavior. Holons are also a way of understanding complex systems, but from a more physical perspective. They provide a way of thinking about how individual parts can simultaneously be part of a larger whole, and how the behavior of the whole can emerge from the interactions of the parts. So, you could use the math of ruliads to mathematically describe the behavior of holons!

Has anyone done this?

The intersection of ruliads and holons is a relatively new and emerging area of research. While there are a few researchers exploring this intersection, it’s still relatively unexplored territory. Stephen Wolfram, the inventor of the concept of the ruliad, has written extensively about its applications to various fields, including physics, mathematics, and computer science. However, there haven’t been many formal studies that have specifically examined the relationship between ruliads and holons. The potential for this intersection to unlock new insights into complex systems is certainly exciting, but it’s still very much a work in progress!